Tuesday, September 27, 2016

Greg Felton argues with Kevin Barrett about religion

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Greg Felton
Greg Felton is a former mainstream journalist who made the (career) mistake of looking too closely at "third rail" topics like Zionism and 9/11. He is the author of The Host and the Parasite: How Israel's Fifth Column Consumed America.

I agree with Greg on most political topics; but since he is an atheist, and I am Muslim, we obviously disagree about religion. Do we ever! Listen and see if you don't agree.

Bonus: This interview features some hardcore rants against the technological matrix that imprisons us. Let's hope NSA/CIA/DHS doesn't turned over its "kill list" authority to an AI program, since any decent AI kill-list program that "listens" to this show will quickly send in the death drones.

28 comments:

  1. Kevin, your definition of 'pagans' is catholic propaganda of the worst kind? You think the entire system is about murdering people? And you strut about this arrogantly while being rude to a guest who is expressing the same thing Buddhists do? I am becoming to become very wary when the most progressive, cool "muslim" truther I know is a fundamentalist asshole who thinks he has a monopoly on God. Literally. So you know all metaphysical answers and the afterlife? Guess that makes you a very unique human being not subject to the human condition. Remind me not to investigate Islam anymore, and to become more skeptical. You are normally a funny, intelligent host, but your religion is really crippling your ability not just to think, but to be a good person and respectful host. If you just demonstrated the morality of your system, I will pass and take up the "pagan" system, which was the aboriginal religion of Europe, before Judaism brought their usury, sacrifice, and all of Babylon with it. Learn about what "paganism" really is. You insult massive amounts of People. But now I know why there won't be peace in the middle east by the way you ended your show. Your right so we'll just have to disagree because you are a godless heathen. That is what you did you know? Not a good day for you, Kevin.

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    1. Obviously you can't handle the truth: That paganism, in all of its many forms worldwide (perhaps with a few exceptions, who knows) is rooted in human sacrifice. The scholarly literature on this is quite extensive. A good introduction is the work of Rene Girard, the most important thinker of the late 20th century. This assertion has nothing to do with what religion I, or any other reader of Girard and his sources, might profess, and everything to do with empirical evidence.

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    2. I have been listening to and reading the work from Kevin, since I found VT.
      I have also been a guest on his show (check the archives.

      Here was my take on it ...
      If you have any evidence that pagan rituals did not practice human sacrifice then please feel free to enlighten me.

      My mother is Germanic and my father is Irish so this is in my blood (I the Celtic tribal inks to prove it!).
      Here check my N.W.European club-card ...
      http://picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/24641314

      Now we have established that.

      Greg, made some good arguments however, Kevin, handed him his genitals on a sliver platter at the half way mark (it was bang on HALF WAY)!
      Tell me that was synchronicity !?

      He dropped the ball the moment he refused to get into the Babylonian Talmud, the kabbalistic rituals and the ancient rite of Scottish Freemasonry.
      He then fails to see that these black magicians are controlling conscious reality with the cheap parlour tricks they employ. And thus he will never understand that he is a fly encased in amber ... that is destined to wander through time and space for eternity ... or until he realises that he is trapped by his own arrogance and extremely subjective perception of reality that is being manipulated by entities that he does not even acknowledge.
      GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!

      Dharma: ([dʱəɾmə]; Sanskrit: धर्म dharma, listen (help. · info); Pali: धम्म dhamma) is a key concept with multiple meanings in the Indian religions-Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism. ... In Buddhism dharma means "cosmic law and order", but is also applied to the teachings of the Buddha.

      From here the conversation goes RAPIDLY down hill and at one point he loses his ability to speak English fluently (from here he was lost like a babe in the woods).

      Greg: Kevin, you can't make these claims!

      Kevin: I sure can !!!

      He really fucked up when he said that ESP was BS!
      Greg: Kevin, what you just said was purely a nonsensical, stream of consciousness, defensiveness ...
      HUH??? WTF does that even mean in that context !?

      Kevin: The average Tibetan peasant is way far ahead of the average western PhD when it comes to understanding consciousness and how the world truly manifests (one of your best lines).

      Greg: (sarcastic tonality) What do YOU mean by PSI ?
      I defy you to prove remote viewing. It has been proven to be a fraud!

      Kevin: I am sure that assumption is based on your extensive research of the subject? Have you head of the 'rhine experiments'?

      Gerg: I errr, ummm, well .... errr ... ummm ... no. What are they?

      Kevin: This is like discussing the nuclear issue with someone who has never hear of the Manhattan project or Einstein (it was painful).

      It goes totally off the rails from this point and he just descends further and further into a state of total cognitive dissonance!

      Greg: I was unconscious when I was born and I will be unconscious when I die.

      I don't normally find comedy in these debates but when you told him that when he dies it is going to be like a bad acid trip I fell of the chair and had put it on pause ... please no more I am laughing so hard my sides hurt and I cant see because I am crying.
      Too funny!!!
      That was fucking hilarious ... next time we need to give him 5 dried grams of psilocybin mushrooms. The shrooms that grow in kodaikanal (India) are particularly potent.

      His blurb sounded like he had written some good stuff ... but after hearing that debate I shall not be reading any of it!

      Greg: God, can not exist outside time and space (dumbest shit I have ever heard in my life).

      What a total fucking ass-hat ...


      If you want to know more about me intellectually ... you can listen to one of my podcasts
      https://soundcloud.com/ray-gun-464873245/free-speech-hate-speech-and-the-self-policing-society

      Also go and check out the show I did with Kevin and see how much of MY OWN flesh and BLOOD I have given to this fight.

      http://noliesradio.org/archives/116646

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    3. Clearly you are not interested in intelligent discourse as shown by your facetious and derisive comments. Like a true believer, you have nothing of substance to say--just cheap shots and cognitive dissonance, as evidence by this:

      "Greg: God, can not exist outside time and space (dumbest shit I have ever heard in my life).”

      Really? How the hell would you know? Do you exist outside of time and space? What is your basis for ridiculing my comment?

      You entire post is fatuous nonsense. For the record, Kevin sandbagged me by going off the rails into pseudoscience. Had I been told of this I would have brought ou the $20 million the Pentagon wasted on Operation Stargate, which was supposed to prove remote viewing.

      Despite Kevin's loyalty to the concept, he did not offer a defence; instead, he made an appeal to authority (Dean Radin), and appeal to authority is recognized as a form of faulty argument.

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  2. Kevin, take a deep breath and apologize to your guest. Reflect on losing your cool and becoming very self-righteous. I used to think Jewish supremacy was the plague of the Earth and Muslims had a raw deal. But now I know that Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all still men of the book, of dogma, of spirituality turned to dust.Many on this Earth are unable to spiritually evolve out of the dead orthodoxies of medieval thought systems that have persisted to this day through structural systems of oppression. Kevin actually cited "the saints," with miraculous properties. Are we on a comic show? Kevin is enlightened? Last I checked,he still does not understand no planes and is rude to his guests. So he had a near death experience that led him to be a Muslim? is everyone else, damned? See the problem with any kind of supremacy? Kevin, you admit that Fetzer tells you that you layer your religion a bit heavy, and Gordy now, but your GUESTS are brutalized as they describe their beliefs and ideals, which I happen to share. Your ignorance for a beautiful religion that existed millenia before a tribal faith known as Islam. And you know NOTHING about it. When will you get the idea that you need to tone down the jihad during an interview? I was excited your guest was going to explain a great alternative to Jude-Christian religious mind-control. But not while Kevin is on a jihad. Not for truth, but for his own superior, special pleading arguments. No wonder half of America feels their way of life is threatened. Christianity was the group that burned people alive, women and children. It was the Jews that sacrificed people. Pagans celebrate nature, other than a few cults that I am sure are given funding by Jesuits and Jews to make people forget there ever was another way to live. Kevin, you are in the matrix, because you define yourself by identity politics, which has nothing to do with you. Be good to other people. "Pagans are just about sacrifice." Kevin said that. Amazing. Christianity was a force that invaded Europe and then the US by the SWORD. Now we think its the American way. But before it all, there was something different. It was given the name "paganism" by Catholics who sought to persecute those who did not believe in theocratic states like Kevin does. Kevin, research the massacre of the Cathars, the Palestinians, and tell me quickly one perosn a "pagan" killed that you personally know of? I feel bad for your guest, who -- while a bit too caught up in ridiculous government science, was actually an open minded and tolerant person. Imagine an atheist being nicer and more moral than a Muslim. Go figure.

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    1. ONE person killed by a pagan?! How about three million and counting since 2001? 9/11 was a classic pagan false-flag human sacrifice ritual. The pagan freemasons who did it are happy to let touchy-feely new age neopagan vegetarians dance around the maypole, while they (the real, authentic pagans) do the real thing.

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    2. Please see my response to Solfeggio for your own dose of reality check (Matt style!

      And FYI you might want to look up the word paragraph ...
      I hope this was helpful.

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    3. Actually, nothing you've written has been useful or even mature. So, my expectations are set accordingly low.

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  3. May you find wisdom without religion,how
    absolute!

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    1. Yes,: how absolutely brilliant. One does not need “god” to live a moral life.

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  4. I am not claiming to be an expert on Paganism, but I heard both Kevin and Greg state that Pagans love and respect Nature : oh how beautiful and sweet it is !!.

    The pagan love for nature stems from their love and worship of the Penis, as they see it a symbol of fertility, life and power. That led them to start worshiping Nature, as they see phallic symbols in trees, mountains and who knows what else.

    I am not saying Nature should not be respected, but certainly not for those reasons.

    As a matter of fact, some modern pagans of today express their infatuation and worship of the phallus (whether admitted or not) by building high rise buildings all over the planet, look up 'Phallic Architecture' on google :

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phallic_architecture

    I am not even going to get into the "beautiful" pagan traditions of sex rituals (let it be noted : I was never invited !), which they saw as a transmission of life force, the live burials or live cremation of servants when their masters died etc. Look that up for yourself.

    And yes, like Kevin said, 911 was a human sacrifice by a particular strain of pagans of today. That is not to say that every person who identifies as a pagan is necessarily onboard with the death and destruction that particular strain is causing.

    As for Greg's statements and beliefs regarding God, it is like someone living in a bubble and whatever he can not grab and bring into his tiny limited bubble, then it does not exist. He is also like someone travelling on a highway FULL OF SIGNS, but he is just too blind and arrogant to see and acknowledge any sign at all.

    It seems as if the higher intellect that man has been endowed with, is a curse to those who refuse to tame their ego and insist on considering the limited understandings - called 'science' - as Absolute.

    May Greg and the many like him tame their ego enough for the veil over their eyes and heart to be lifted.

    Quran [022:46] : "Have they not traveled in the land, and have they hearts wherewith to feel and ears wherewith to hear ?. For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind."

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    1. Amin, your attempt to refute me is as feeble as Kevin's. I appreciate that you're Muslim and follow the Qur'an, but you are the one who is arrogant. You cannot accept that intelligent people can disbelieve in "god" so they must be blind and arrogant. This is the failure of all believers: No beleiver in god can mount a rational defence of its existence; all they can do is attack the skepetic with ad hominems. This is what Kevin was reduced to when he arrogantly held up a Tibetan peasant to be superior to me and engaged in his untutored rant against paganism.

      I have long since been free of the need for an invisible metaphysical crutch, which is a sign of wisdom, not arrogance.

      God is a function of the human mind and human language. People project an image of a superior, omniscient being because it serves a need. Part of that need is denying that the projection comes from within.

      Some people need "god"; others don't. I suggest you learn to accept both kinds of people.

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    2. Thank you brother Greg for taking the time to write a reply. Please try not to see my comment as "me attacking you". I simply voiced opinions that reflect my current feelings and current understandings. I am in no way shape or form expecting others to consider them as Absolute or else...

      I am not standing on any pedestal pointing the finger at those who don't believe in an Absolute Creator. So when it comes to your suggestion to accept both people (believers & disbelievers), I do accept all kind of people and will defend their right to believe whatever they want to believe, as long as they are not harming animals, plants, the environment and preferably humans too (but that's optional (lol)).

      I admit that it wasn't always the case, but thank you to Allah for not giving up on me and enlightening me slowly but surely. Indeed, in The Quran, Allah reminds the prophet Mohammad that his mission is to transmit the message, not to judge, for Allah is The only Judge.

      That said, for me as a believer, the existence of God is SO OBVIOUS by simply observing and pondering on Creation around us. So I can't help reacting to the statement that "God does not exist" in the manner of : "what the F, are you kidding ?.". I am assuming it is the same for a convinced disbeliever, from his perspective, and that's perfectly fine with me.

      As the Quran say, whoever wants to disbelieve let him disbelieve, and whoever wants to believe let him believe.

      You mentioned intelligence and science. The way I see it, there is the intelligence of the mind, but also the intelligence of the heart. Not long ago, I found some internet articles saying that scientists have found that the heart and the brain are in constant communication, that the heart has more neurones than the brain and that the heart send more signals to the brain than vice-versa.

      Maybe those who adamantly refuse to consider the existence of A Creator, are in fact preventing the capabilities of their heart from blossoming. As a side note, there are many people who find themselves very much turned off by the major abrahamic religions, but still believe with absolute certainty in an Absolute Creator who put signs of His Existence all around us and in us.

      Have you ever had a dream so intense that you were sure - while dreaming - that it wasn't a dream, only to wake up and realize that what you were so sure of was only a dream after all ?. Maybe this life after all is not as "real" as some of us think it is, and when we die that will be the wake up time.

      Thank you again Greg for your reply and thank you for your courage to try to expose the plague of international Zionism. If the majority of Muslims had half your courage, the world wouldn't be in a such sorry state.

      Best of luck.

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    3. Dear Amin:
      You proved my point when you said “for me as a believer, the existence of God is SO OBVIOUS by simply observing and pondering on Creation around us."

      This not only confirms my argument that belief in “god” is subjective, but also my argument that defences of “god’s” existence are tautological: it is not logically admissible to asset a cause by citing an effect.

      At any rate, I enjoyed this discussion and wish you the best.

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    4. Indeed Greg, I enjoyed the discussion as well, and I am still enjoying it.

      In response to your argument "belief in "god" is subjective" : I do agree with you, it is subjective in the sense that it can not be accessed and measured by the (very limited)5 senses, and God's Nature can not be understood by our 3 lbs Brain.

      I will however go further and say that, besides Allah, EVERYTHING IS SUBJECTIVE and RELATIVE.. Only Allah is not, for He is Absolute and the Creator of E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I--N-G ; only Allah was not created (contrary to what you assumed believers believe, that God is "self-creating" (see the debate with Kevin)).

      Let me try to clarify that, starting from the fact that you made appeal several times to "science", "logic" and "rationality". All those concepts are indeed very beautiful and often very useful to navigate through this life, but it does NOT make them any less subjective and relative.

      Your mistake, in my humble opinion, is that you are referring to them as if they were Absolute and you chose to stand on them to make the case that "God does not exist".

      For example, I say 1+1=10. You might answer "you're nut, everybody knows that 1+1=2". Yes, 1+1=2, but that is not Absolute, because it does PRE-SUPPOSE that you chose to work in the decimal numeral system (base 10), whereas I am using the binary system (base 2). It is RELATIVE to which base we chose to work with.

      Let's say I draw a circle with EXACTLY 10 cm Radius. I say "oh man, I have no idea what EXACTLY is the circumference of that circle". You might reply "What's the matter with you, you shouldn't have dropped out of high school. Everybody knows that the circumference is 2 x Pi x Radius". True, but the final result is RELATIVE to what you choose for Pi, for Pi is an INFINITE number. In other words, dare I say, nobody knows EXACTLY what is the circumference of a circle, despite knowing exactly what the radius is.

      One last example, before I become too boring. In the beautiful field of Mathematics, there are 'Axioms', which are statements that MUST be accepted on FAITH, in order to make progress and expand a particular subfield of Mathematics. If one chooses to be hard-headed, refuses to accept on FAITH some axioms and move on, then that particular subfield is stuck (it is going nowhere).

      I'll stop here with the examples, but there are so many more. See, it is all a bunch of approximations, assumptions, things taken on faith...etc. As a matter of fact, The Quran states that Man has been given a very small portion of knowledge (but ample knowledge to arrive at the conclusion that "La Illaaha illallah, wa Muhammad Rasulullah).

      In the Quran, it is stated that believing in God, His messengers, Judgement Day, Paradise...etc is a blessing from Allah. A spiritual blessing.

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    5. In short, yes a believer can not prove that God exists, IF we choose to stand on the habitual "rationality", a certain kind of "logic", the limited 5 senses, "if god exists then show me his DHS issued ID card"...etc.

      But also, a convinced atheist, as you professed yourself to be, CAN NOT prove that "God does not exist" (a statement you made several times with Kevin), for everything he chooses to stand on to make his case ("logic", "science", "rationality",...etc) will be relative and definitely not Absolute, as I tried to illustrate in the examples above.

      That brings us to the intelligence and the brain of the heart. I will not go there in order not to make this comment too long, but that's what Kevin alluded too when he mentioned the example of the Tibetain peasant; unfortunately it seems as if you understood it wrongly that he was trying to put you down.

      I feel silly writing all those things above, because I am just re-phrasing what Kevin said in your debate with him. Maybe I needed to write some of that above, to help me better understand my own beliefs.

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    6. Hi Amin:
      Five sense is all we have. Anything else is wishful thinking. The scientific method liberated natural investigation from the prison of religious bias. So, if you can't prove god exists using these senses, then you're lost. Why should the standards of evidence be weakened just so a weak argument can be allowed to stand?

      Also, The heart is not relevant. This is a metaphor only. Kevin's use of the Tibetan peasant was disrespectful and arrogant. He had no business saying I was morally inferior to a peasant. I do not need to meet a primitive standard of acceptability.

      I offered a valid argument for the non-existence of god based on non-theological grounds. Kevin chose to ignore it.

      Please revisit it.

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    7. _ "Five sense is all we have. Anything else is wishful thinking."

      Fine. Based on that assertion then, millions of scientists across the globe are basing their careers research and findings on wishful thinking. Indeed, to this day no five senses have been able to apprehend 'an electron' : All what the 5 senses are able to apprehend are some effects and manifestations which are attributed hypothetically to a subatomic particle that has been named "electron", and a theory has been built around it which seems to work for now . See, again, "science", "the scientific method"...etc is anything but Absolute, as you seem to think.

      _ "Five sense is all we have. Anything else is wishful thinking."

      Doesn't that make you a materialist then, despite what you vehemently denied when debating Kevin ?. (Materialism : the belief that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications). Are you indeed stuck in the world of the 5 senses as David Icke would put it ?.

      _ "Kevin's use of the Tibetan peasant was disrespectful and arrogant. He had no business saying I was morally inferior to a peasant."

      I tried to find that in the audio. All I could find was the following transcript :

      "The most basic simple Tibetan peasant is so far ahead of the average western Phd in truly understanding how the world works, but I don't think you can understand that at this point." - Kevin

      I don't see any disrespect nor arrogance on Kevin's part in that statement. Maybe it is because I have a different understanding of the English language, or maybe it is you who is in a rush to feel offended. Looking for the slightest opportunity to feel offended and disrespected is often an indication of an untamed hungry ego.

      Maybe, after all, what is standing between an atheist and God is simply the out-of-control ego of the created individual.

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    8. No. Amin. Your repetitive recourse to ego is a form of denial. There is none so egotistical as the believer who claims god exists yet cannot accept the fallacy of his own argument. God does not exist except in the mind of the believer. Even such a believe does not prove a 6th sense.

      You and I can both do the same mathematical operations and come to the same answers. Belief in god is therefore unnecessary.

      No, I am not a materialist. I believe in the need for a respect for metaphysics, but one without a theistic god.

      Your analogy to the electron cannot be taken seriously since it is another form of denial and deflection. An electron can be proven and understood rationally. It was the product of investigation and can bs apprehended by anyone. God cannot. You may believe in god, but god has no factual quality. It is just an idea projected by your own mind.

      You have to do better than denigrate the atheist as egoistic to prove god's existence. You have no choice but to prove it rationally. Appealing to wishful thinking and inappropriate analogies will not convince any opponent.


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    9. Ok brother Greg, I think I understand better how you feel about those things now.

      I thank you for the exchange and I wish you the best. I am looking forward to hearing you in the near future on brother Kevin's podcast.

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  5. Those unable to see "The Signs on the Highway of life" are as if they have lost their capacity to be amazed. How about the following internet article (excerpt) dated 01/02/2011 :



    Soubhanallah !.

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    1. Here below. Sorry, betrayed again by technology !!.

      "Bees That Solve Complex Math Problems Better than Humans :

      The traveling salesman problem is all about finding the shortest route between various points, like a salesman who has to visit several houses and doesn't want to spend more gas than he has to. The problem is a lot harder than it sounds: depending on the number of locations and the distance between them, it can take a supercomputer several days to figure it out, since they have to go through and verify every single possibility.

      Bees, however, can solve it in a heartbeat.

      How? No idea, they just can. When researchers showed them a bunch of artificially controlled flowers, the foraging bees took one look at the place and were instantly able to figure out the shortest route between them."

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  6. There is a lot of talk of Paganism going on here.

    So just so I do not end up misrepresenting you ...
    Which Paganism are you referring too?

    Aztec Paganism is the Mesoamerican religion of the Aztecs. Like other Mesoamerican religions, it has huge elements of human sacrifice in connection with a large number of religious festivals which are held according to patterns of the Aztec calendar. It has a large pantheon the Aztecs often adopt deities of other geographic regions or peoples into their own religious practice. Aztec cosmology divides the world into upper and nether worlds, each associated with a specific set of deities and astronomical objects. Important in Aztec religion are the sun, moon and the planet Venus (where have we seen that before).

    The Aztec religion features a creation myth centered on sacrifice. This is reflected in the many festivals and rituals of the religion, which feature human sacrifice on a massive scale. The chief gods are Huitzilopochtli, god of war and human sacrifice, Tlaloc, god of thunder and rain, Xiuhteccuhtli, god of fire, Xipe Totec, 'our Lord the Flayed One' and Quetzalcoatl (the plumed serpent), God of wisdom.

    QuetzalcoatI, also known as the Feathered Serpent, appears on structures in the ancient city of Teotihuacán in Mexico. The Toltecs, who flourished in the region from the 800s to the 1100s, also recognised Quetzalcoatl as a deity. QuetzalcoatI, is found right across the Yucatán peninsula, blending with the local Maya population. And I would wager if Olmec (3000 + BC) sites were subject to archeological digs ... we would find QuetzalcoatI, there also!

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  7. great discussion!
    Agree with your guest about Jesus, although I rather subscribe to ‘theory' that he was probably the son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra, He having himself declared God by the Roman senate and she holding herself to be a reincarnation of ISIS the VIRGIN god. Joseph and Mary were part of her court and entrusted with the ‘son of god’ and ‘king of the world’ (that is heir to the Roman and Egyptian throne) they fled with the rest of the noble Egyptian class (after Caesar’s death and Marc Anthony’s disaster) to meet up later and form his group of disciples. He decided that he would retake his 'kingdom’ thru 'peace and love’ thanks to his time spent in the east, a theory supported by book by a Russian writer (NINKOVICH).

    That is the short version and certainly more believable than the ‘official story’.
    Grace Power has great video on this.
    Just my opinion

    is there a ‘god'?
    most probably but not the god we have been conditioned to believe he/she/it is

    VB

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  8. Consciousness of the "other world" is enhanced by fasting (Huxley called it "the royal road to religious experience") and diminished by alcohol consumption. If you want to directly experience even a hint of the larger dimensions of reality that saints and shamans are familiar with, give up drinking and consider doing some fasting.

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    1. Of course, "saints" are just people elevated by collect vote or they are fictitious martyrs. Fasting can affect the mind but the effect is psychochemical. If the brain is starved for oxygen or otherwise sensory deprived it can imagine all manner of fantastic things, like gods.

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  9. Ok brother Greg, I think I understand better how you feel about those things now.

    I thank you for the exchange and I wish you the best. I am looking forward to hearing you in the near future on brother Kevin's podcast.

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